Personal trainer Leia wanted to homebirth, but because her husband wasn’t comfortable with that idea hired hospital midwives instead. She did lots of prenatal education and prep, and doulas who were the perfect fit for her. In hindsight she’s very glad she did because she both knew how to advocate for herself and had an advocate there to help her navigate the unexpected twists and turns of her birth as her water breaks as the first sign of labor and labor goes on for longer than and is more exhausting than she expects. She’s able to have the birth without pain meds that she hoped for, but certain hospital pressures require some strong self-advocacy all along the way. You’ll also hear her describe the indispensable postpartum support was with her doulas, a lactation consultant, a virtual postpartum support group, and bodywork for her baby.
Resources:
Leia DeSousa / IG @leiadesousa - personal training & nutrition coaching (including prenatal)
Doulas Sarah-Grace Sweeney (as of 2024, has moved on to study at Yale to become a homebirth midwife) & Beth Scheppke
Transformed by Birth by Dr. Britta Bushnell*
City Lactation - lactation consultant
Katinka Locascio - massage & cranial sacral therapy (Manhattan) - katinkalocascioLMT@gmail.com, (646) 926-6672
Sponsor links:
Free “Pack for Your Best Birth” Packing List (with free mini-course option)
East River Doula Collective (find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event)
Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria, Queens and virtual)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Episode Topics:
Wasn’t 1st pregnancy, had friends who had given birth so she had thought about her birth preferences
Wanted a home birth but her husband didn’t
Transformed by Birth was an important book in helping her process
Movement was important to her as a personal trainer
She also does nutrition coaching, but her nutrition went out the window to a good extent
She has hypothyroid and was monitored in pregnancy, more sonos were recommended but they asked questions
Taking a live, in-person class was very helpful to them, even though they’re introverts
Midwives recommending induction if she gets to 41 weeks, she’s not comfortable with this
Her water breaks while sleeping, thankfully has a chux pad underneath her
Tested positive for GBS+ early in pregnancy, had trouble advocating to test again
Stops feeling baby moving, so she texts doula and they decide to go in
Told midwife she thinks her water broke
Baby starts moving
In triage, agree to heplock – 3 tries, 2 nurses
Stuck in triage longer than they wanted
Moved to L&D room 3am
They marked 9pm as when her water broke so she was on a 12 hr deadline
Continuous monitoring was going to be eventually required
7am had an exam - 4 cm dilated, midwife recommends pitocin & epidural, they say no
Using hydrotherapy
Doula arrives around 8am
Continuous monitoring was started 9am
Agreed to IV fluids at some point and she had to pee a lot
Did tons of squats in order to pee
Doula suggesting different changes of position
Wished she had eaten something hearty in earlier labor before she couldn’t eat anymore because she felt exhausted
Doula fanned her, did some comforting touch and massage
Supported squat with Tammer was nice
Feeling done and hoping it would be over soon
3pm - consented to a pelvic exam and she was 6cm and they’re devastated
Around 7pm, they discussed using pitocin and she agreed to it
Doula prepares her for things getting more intense and tells her she can stop if she doesn’t like it
12:45am was when he was born
His head came out but then it just stopped
Hand was up by neck, nuchal cord
They take baby away immediately, didn’t delay clamping
Did tour of placenta
Baby latching
Doula helped her with hand expression
Did have an urge to bear down, pushing on all fours
Sarah-Grace encouraging her to bring down her vocalization lower in her register
Very guttural noises coming out of her, shouting
Pushed on her side, doula helped guide on pushing positions
Wasn’t prepared for the amount of shaking after birth
Loved having baby skin to skin
Stayed an extra night because Omari was a little jaundiced
Lactation consultant - citylactation.com (they worked mostly with Kara)
Cranial Sacral with Katinka on baby - saw visible improvement in feeding and his shoulders came down/relaxed
Doulas helped so much with their postpartum visit, helping them think through dividing up responsibilities/tag teaming, education on baby care
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Welcome to the Birth Matters podcast. Today I have with me a former student of mine, Leia. Hi Leia. How are you today?
Leia: Hello, I'm doing well. Thank you.
Lisa: So so glad to see you again. And Leia is a fellow Astoria neighbor, right?
Leia: Yes.
Lisa: I think you took my class back in, you and Tammer back in June.
Leia: Yes.
Lisa: Of 2022?
Leia: I did. Yeah.
Lisa: Great. Well, would you just take a moment to introduce yourself a little bit more than I just did.
Leia: So, my name is Leia DeSousa. I'm a personal trainer and health and nutrition coach. We've been in Astoria for a couple years now, and we just gave birth to our son, Omari, in August.
Lisa: So at the time we're recording it, he's about five months. Is that right?
Leia: Five months. Yeah.
Lisa: How are things going? Getting a little more interactive at this point?
Leia: Yes. Oh my God, he's great. It's just so wonderful. Like every month, every week he just becomes more and more of a human. It's so delightful.
Lisa: So fun. Really fun age.
Prenatal and Conception Journey
All right, well, so would you please start by just sharing a little bit about your prenatal journey? If you wanna share anything about the conception journey, that's great too. Up to you.
Leia: yeah. So, let's see. So this was actually technically our second pregnancy. The first one was a total surprise, it didn't turn into anything, you know, which was okay, but, when we did get pregnant, we'd already been thinking about it, and a little bit more prepared. And I'm really lucky.
So I was 40 when we conceived and 41 when I had the baby. And I actually feel really lucky that I had people close to me who have had kids older and also a couple friends who went through the pregnancy journey shortly before me.
So I had a lot in mind already of what I wanted. So, I already knew about evidence-based birth. I knew that I wanted to work with a doula. I knew that I personally was drawn to working with a midwife and a home birth, that was not something that my partner was comfortable with. So, we set out to kind of try to find the happy medium. And other than that, it was a lot of podcasts. And I don't know how I found your podcast anymore, but that was a resource. And then, yeah, I'm not sure if I found the podcast first, or I found you first, but we were actually kind of on the early end of looking for a doula. And we did the East River Doulas open house. So we got our doula settled pretty soon and we did end up working with a midwife that also would give birth at the hospital.
And yeah, a lot of reading. I mean, I think the first book I picked up was Transformed by Birth. And then, working with the doulas pretty early was great. Like they passed on a lot of books. A lot that I didn't finish, but I think one of the best ones was Transformed by Birth, which was great.
Lisa: Cause then I know you also referenced that in your class. By Dr. Britta Bushnell. Yeah.
Leia: Yeah. So my husband is also a personal trainer, so movement was a really big component.
I was lucky in that my first trimester, it wasn't fun by any means, but I didn't have debilitating nausea. The nausea that I had was somewhat brief. So for me, movement was just kind of like my anchor. And I've trained other women through their pre-pregnancy journey as well as postpartum, but it was really different going through it myself.
And like, I was thinking back oh my God, like what did I make these women do during their first trimester? Like, you know, I really had to tone my movement down. And of course, Instagram is great because they were like, oh, so you wanna follow people who know all about giving birth naturally and movement. Here are these accounts. So, following other people, and really it was great to have that perspective of what is your body gonna do during birth?
And so what are the movements that you need? So listening to more pelvic PT stuff, which I mean, what's out there has changed a lot in the last decade. Yeah, Tammer and I, my husband, we took a class specifically on different movements to do in the different stages of labor to change the shape of your pelvis.
Lisa: And we were so excited. We were so set, like, we are gonna move through this labor. Do you remember what class, what the name of that class is? Or any of the Instagram accounts that you followed that you really liked?
Leia: Yeah. I'm totally blanking. I did not write those down.
Lisa: Sorry to put you on the spot.
Leia: No. I should find those for you cuz I mean, there were great accounts and the one was by a doula. So I found her through an evidence-based birth podcast.
Lisa: Body Ready Method maybe? Or One Strong Mama or Mamaste Fit? Those are the ones that are popping into my head.
Leia: Yeah. Yeah. Mamaste Fit, I did follow her on Instagram, and I used a lot of her stuff. It was great.
This one, I wanna say Blossoming Bellies. But I don't think that's it. I'll look it up so you can put it in the show notes, but, yeah, I mean, and she's a doula too. so it was great.
It didn't quite go the way we expected it, but I mean I think that was like really where I spent most of my time was a lot of reading and it's interesting because Transformed by Birth, I think that was one of the best books I read, and so much of her thinking was like, really letting go of your expectations around birth.
And I tried really hard to do that. But I also did so much to try to control the way the birth went. And I mean I think it is just one of those things that like, there's nothing I could have done that would've prepared me fully for the way it went. But I think, especially like reading that book before, I had a great frame so that even afterward as I was processing the birth, I was able to feel okay about some of the things that didn't go the way I liked.
And what else? Yeah, I mean, my pregnancy was pretty healthy.
I also do nutrition coaching and so I went in with expectations of how I was going to eat during my pregnancy and that just went up in like a puff of smoke. I stuck to my movement. I did not stick to my nutrition. but you know, it's just, you do the best you can.
Asking Questions
But luckily I still was pretty healthy. I mean, I do take thyroid medication for hypothyroid. And so like my provider, we took blood like every, I think eight to 10 weeks during. We regularly checked my thyroid to make sure that I was okay and make sure there weren't any adjustments.
And I was pleasantly surprised. Like I kind of expected to be treated differently because of my age. And I was really happy that the midwives and, even I initially met with one OB that I decided not to work with, and, they all were like, having a baby at 40, 41 is pretty normal now and you're in good health, so, you know, we're not worried about you.
So that was a relief. I think the only time it came up is when we went to get sonograms, they were like, after a certain point, you should come back every four weeks. And we were like, okay, well why? And they're like, well, cuz the thyroid's really important and if the baby's thyroid isn't developing, then we need to intervene.
I was like, okay, well what would you do? And they were like, well, we would do more sonograms. And I was like, are you gonna do more sonograms to find out if you need to do more sonograms? Anyway, it was kinda hilarious because we had asked three or four times and I guess just nobody had questioned this doctor before, but she didn't have an answer as to what we would do differently. And she was like, well, in some cases we might need to deliver the baby early. And I was like, okay, but you're not taking the baby at 24 weeks. What are we? And this was where reading a lot and especially I think with Evidence-based Birth, they're so good, and I know this was really reinforced in your class, it's just like how to communicate with providers when they it just felt like they were trying to steamroll us and this is what we wanna do and you really shouldn't be questioning us.
Lisa: And that's what they're used to. They're used to people just saying, okay. You're the doctor. You know best, right? Yeah.
Working With Doulas and Birth Class
Leia: Yeah, she literally was confused that we would have any questions at all. But yeah, so, for the most part, the prenatal journey was just exciting and it went pretty smoothly. We started working with a doula right away. I think that was the best decision that we made, other than actually deciding to have a baby, like I cannot sing the praises of our doula enough. So we worked with Golden Bow Birth, Sarah Grace and Beth. And Sarah Grace ended up being the one at the birth, but we would've been so delighted to work with either of them. And, yeah, and we took your birth class.
And it's funny, Tammer and I are both somewhat introverted people. So normally we're the kind of people who'd be like, no, we'll do something online. Like we don't wanna meet new people. But I was pretty adamant of I think I wanna go in person. I think I wanna be all in. And yeah, we were really pleased that we did that.
And there were definitely multiple times where things that came up in your class were so useful and we were just like, oh my God. Lisa knew. And it was so funny, we went to a wedding in July, one of our last trips, and a couple that we were sat with, they came to your birth class too.
Lisa: No way.
Leia: So we spent like a good chunk of the wedding talking about how amazing you are and how much we loved your class.
Lisa: That's so sweet.
Leia: Yeah. Yeah. So you're a legend in Queens.
Lisa: Been doing it for a while. Yeah.
Leia: Yeah.
Lisa: Were there specific parts of class that you found the most useful?
The Story of Inanna and Other Resources
Leia: Well, so in our specific case, talking about what to do if your water breaks early ended up being unfortunately very useful. And even like, quite honestly, going through what to pack in the birth bag. I did use my barf bags, and going through like practicing the brain acronym for how to talk to providers.
Unfortunately we used that so much. And it's one thing to read about it. I think that was a podcast too that I made Tammer listen to, but it's another thing to have it reinforced and to talk about it and hear someone talk through examples. So that was really useful. And you shared from the Transformed by Birth book, you shared the story of Inanna. And I remember reading that and thinking it was valuable. And in fact, I think in the book, she has an excerpt from a former student who's like, guys this is the real deal.
Lisa: This is the effin' real deal, yeah.
Leia: Yeah.
And I feel the same way. And it's funny, like I just remember, you know, trying to be in that place I'm like imagine okay, what if these things are taken away from me? And it definitely happened and I don't know that I was quite as zen about it during the labor process as I would've liked to be, but yeah, it was really helpful, just to know that like somewhere along the line that's gonna happen and in some ways that's just a part of the process and like, you'll be okay, you'll get through. And I think especially for after, processing the birth story, there are still parts I still regret a little bit and kind of wonder ah, should I really just try to negotiate harder for a home birth or like, should we have interviewed more providers to find a better fit? At the end of the day, who's to say it would've gone any differently or any better?
So I think that story is really beautiful. And if any of my friends get pregnant, like those two books will be gifted to them.
Lisa: That's Transformed by Birth and, uh, Ina May's Guide?
Leia: Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah. Okay.
And Leia, it's so true that we'll always, all of us to some extent, will be forever processing our births and processing different little nuanced details of them. I gave birth 17 years ago, almost 18 years ago for the first time, and I still, from time to time, think of new aspects that I had never explored before.
Yeah, I was curious about, given that you had shared before we started recording, bit of an overview of how things went in birth and as you were sharing at the top of this that Tammer wasn't on board with a home birth, I was curious about how you felt on the other side of it having not gone exactly, as you had hoped. How you felt, did you have any hard feelings or regrets or anything?
But at the same time, our partner needs to be on board with a home birth if we're ever gonna consider that.
So, that kind of ruled it out, if I didn't feel good about that or safe about that.
Leia: Yeah. Yeah.
And I do really feel strongly that way. It's of course easy to look at, like the one thing that you could change. And there are so many ways in which we were aligned in how we wanted the birth to go. Like, we both really wanted it to be an active birth where I could be moving around and being in different positions. And being able to eat during labor if I felt the need to. And, like just having access to a shower or water or different comfort techniques. I really wanted to do it without the Pitocin or an epidural. And I've always had just like relatively low blood pressure, so he also was very nervous that if I were to get an epidural, my blood pressure would just get way too low.
So we were on the same page with that. And I just felt so taken care of by the doula. I mean, both doulas when we were meeting with them beforehand, it just, it really felt like we were all on the same page and she so readily understood our vision and supported it and was so just ready to get in there and help make that a reality.
And I mean, we'll get to it, but there just were certain things that happened in my birth that like, we couldn't have foreseen so.
Lisa: I remember Sarah Grace and Beth sharing with me, after I got to know you in birth class, they just were like, they're amazing. They're just so wonderful. And I just could see what a great fit, between them sharing that with me, and my getting to know you a little bit and seeing how wonderful a couple you are, and then also just then seeing how you adored them.
I was like, ah, that's what we're always hoping for when people hire a doula, is that they find that magic fit where it's just like, oh my gosh, I feel like I've known you my whole life. This is like the best support ever. So oh, it brings so much joy to my heart to hear you describe that.
Leia: Oh, that makes my day too.
Pressure to Schedule Induction
Lisa: Well, so is there anything else you wanna share about the pregnancy or if not, you can go into the end pregnancy and how birth started whenever you're ready.
Leia: Yeah, so this was my first baby, right? And I was kind of, mentally like I'm gonna go past term and, I got stories of how things went for my mom and, my older brother and I both, her births were pretty similar. So I was convinced that I was gonna go to 42 weeks. And of course we start having the final meetings with the midwives and already before I'd even gotten to 40 weeks, they're telling me that they're not really comfortable going past 41 weeks.
And we're already talking about having to schedule an induction to pick a date, to have it on the books so that it would be convenient. And we were really not comfortable with that. And, we were kind of trying to figure out how to push back on that and did we have to?
Lisa: Do you mind my asking if, did it sound like it was completely based on calendar or did it have something to do with advanced maternal age, or what was your feeling on that? Or did you know?
Leia: Yeah, I mean, I guess it might have been somewhat related to advanced maternal age, but it was 100%, like the 41 week mark, when we hit this day on the calendar, we're not comfortable going past that. And it wasn't even like we should be checking in and having a sonogram to check how your fluid levels are or anything like that.
It was just like I hadn't even gotten to term and they're already talking about it, and I think some of it is like an administrative thing. They were like, they're not gonna do it on a Friday or something like that, so you have to schedule it Tuesday through Thursday. And they did tell me you don't have to go, but we want you to have it on the calendar so that you have the spot booked.
And we really were not comfortable with that. And so then, one of my last, I think it was like the Friday before, my 40 week mark was on a Tuesday. So the Friday before I had an appointment, and that midwife was like, I, oh, one other thing that I did kind of before pregnancy and throughout my pregnancy somewhat regularly was acupuncture. So the midwife was like, yeah, go ahead, do the acupuncture to try and help induce labor. and I had been doing, once we got to 38, I'd been doing like the evening primrose oil. I never ate quite enough dates, but, kinda like low key doing some of those things to support going into labor.
Water Breaks on its Own
So I ended up going to have acupuncture. I got a last minute appointment on Wednesday, the day after I was officially due. And then Wednesday at 3:00 AM I wake up and my water has broken. Oh, another thing that was super helpful from your class was the idea to have a chux pad under the sheets starting shortly before birth.
So thankfully that chux pad was there cuz I woke up to like a gush. I mean, I was sleeping, so it wasn't cinematic in that way, but also it wasn't completely drenched everywhere, but it was a lot. So, we were excited. We were like, okay, it's the beginning. And I went back to bed and tried to do the thing when I woke up, I think I woke up at like six and I was just like too much nervous energy to sleep anymore.
And I was working on a puzzle and like taking a walk and I didn't have contractions, until, like probably six or 7:00 AM. They were very mild. They were very far apart. So this is where thankfully we were like, okay, we're not gonna rush in. Oh, one other detail, I forgot. I tested positive for GBS. Pretty early in the pregnancy too, it was in my urine. And we thought we were gonna get a chance to do another test at, I can't remember what week. And they were like, oh, if you've already tested positive, we won't test you again.
Lisa: I do not understand that. But this is standard with most hospital providers, is that once GBS positive, always GBS positive, but your microbiome can change pretty radically within four weeks. So it perplexes me why that's the standard.
Leia: I know. And we also were so bummed, because one person at the practice had told us we would do the test. I guess she hadn't seen that.
So we were like taking the Fem Dophilus pro-- we, I say we, I was the only one taking the Fem Dophilus probiotic. We were just like really, hopeful. And then the other provider came and was like, oh no, there's no point in doing it, And we were like, can we do it anyway just to see? And she's like, you can, but we'll still, treat you based on the positive result that you had before. So yeah, thankfully, we talked about, in your class, watch for signs of infection, but just don't look at the clock. Claim ignorance. Don't go in right away. The trick though was we had another appointment scheduled, cuz they wanted you to come in weekly,
So it's Thursday morning and we're like, ah, we don't wanna go in, but if we go to the midwife, they're definitely gonna notice my water is broken.
So we called the doula and she was brilliant and she was like, you can say that you're having contractions so you don't feel like it's useful or comfortable to go in. Which was true. It was not a lie. So we did that. We felt good. And initially Tammer and I had kind of talked and he was like, maybe we go into the hospital after 24 hours.
Change in Movement and Going to the Hospital
And as we're getting closer and closer to that 24 hour mark, I am not having contractions close enough or intense enough. And I was just like, I'm not close enough. We should stay, get a good night's sleep, have a good meal, and then go in and we're kind of debating this and then, I think around, it was like around seven, we were really debating and then I started to feel like I couldn't feel the baby moving anymore.
And it's that kind of anxiety that once you get that idea in your head, like there's no getting it out.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. Sure.
Leia: And it's not the kind of thing that you wanna just be like, let's wait three hours.
So, You're like texting with the doula and she's like, if you feel like the baby's not moving, it might be a good idea to go in.
And so I call the number that I'm supposed to if my water's broken. And they're like, okay, we'll have the midwife on call call you back and get you checked in. And here's what I regret.
I regret saying that my water had broken. I regret not saying I'm not sure if the baby's moving anymore. Because the one you can dial back, the other you cannot. So I admitted to the midwife that I think, and I hedged it too. I was like, I think my water's broken. So we get in the Uber and we're on the way to the hospital and we're going over the bridge and it's one of those things too, like in retrospect, of course, like 9:00 PM was like his rumpus time.
And so he starts kicking and moving around and I was like, sh*t. dunno if I could say that.
Lisa: Yes you can.
Leia: I was like, ugh. Okay. Okay. And we couldn't dial back about the water breaking and I mean, I don't know what they would've done if we'd been like, we're not coming in, but we were already there.
And it was one of those things that like, we would've rather gone in too early if the baby wasn't moving. And we would've rather been cautious about that. But, once we knew the baby was moving, I was very much like, I don't wanna be in the hospital right now.
So it takes a little bit, we get into a triage room, which is tiny and cramped and awful. And, because of the GBS, I knew that I was gonna have to start getting antibiotics. So we go ahead, we agree to the Hep-Lock. It took three tries, two different nurses to get it in and it was excruciating. I was so unhappy. And then, we're trying to like, get some rest on this terrible bed.
They tell me they wanna do monitoring and they're saying, okay, it's only gonna be 20 minutes, and then it's 30 minutes and 40 minutes. And Tammer's going out into the hallway being like, she's been hooked up to this monitor for 30 minutes now. And they're like, oh, well the baby's not moving as much as we like, so we're gonna monitor more. Things like that.
And we're just like, Yeah. This is when I started to get a little bit bitter about our choices and we finally got moved to a room around 3:00 AM. The midwife did come in before we were moved to check that my water had broken, and she got the speculum barely in, and I was like, jumping from discomfort.
And she was like, it's fine, it's everywhere. It's definitely broken. So they kind of marked that as 9:00 PM when I called was when my water broke, which meant that I was on the clock. 12 hours, the rule is I had to be on continuous monitoring. And, this is one thing that when we talked to the doulas before, they'd worked at this hospital before and they told us that this would happen and one of the things why we wanted to work with this practice is they were like, we have wireless monitoring, you don't have to be on continuous monitoring, we can use the doppler. So we went back to our appointments, being like, we don't wanna be on continuous monitoring, what do you have? And they kept assuring us like, no, we've got wireless, the hospital just got a bunch more of these wireless things.
So we finally moved to a room at 3:00 AM. I did not want an exam. Like I just didn't want to know the number, it didn't seem helpful. I mean, I knew I wasn't that far along just in terms of the contraction spacing, but I did agree, she was like, when there's a shift change, when the next provider comes in, maybe it makes more sense to have her examine you.
Cervical Exam and Labor Intensifies
And so had the exam at 7:00 AM and we agreed to it. And I mean, right away it was, okay, you should do an epidural and Pitocin and this and that. And I was just like, Nope, we don't want that. And that was the beginning of us having to dig our heels in and say no. And I mean, I appreciate that the provider was like, well, can I share my reasons why, which we listened to.
And then when we were like, thank you, we do not want that, we do not consent to that, she listened. But we did have to constantly be saying like, no, thank you. We don't want that. So that was around 7:00 AM, I was four centimeters dilated, not really surprised.
And things were starting to get a bit uncomfortable though. So I took a shower and that was really nice. And then I think the doula got there maybe around 8:00 AM and 9:00 AM was when they put me on continuous monitoring. And the nurse, she tried so hard to get the wireless monitors to work.
I think she tried for like 30 minutes and they just wouldn't work. So, when they finally were like, we're gonna do this other monitor, I honestly, I was like, fine, just get off of me. So yeah, I mean, it was really hard. I didn't wanna go in expecting it to be too hard.
I didn't wanna set myself up for feeling that way. So I think I was maybe a little bit disappointed that I couldn't, will myself into making it feel easier than it was. And being on the continuous monitoring was just not fun. And at some point in time, we ended up agreeing to have IV fluid, I guess, because the water breaking, I don't even remember now.
So I had to pee like all the time. I didn't wanna use a bedpan, so the doula put a chux pad down, so I was like squatting on a chux pad next to the bed every time I had to go to the bathroom.
Lisa: By the way, a very dumb hospital policy that most hospitals don't do. Yeah. Not cool.
Leia: And I was just like, can I just take it off for a minute to go to the bathroom? Can I just take it off for a few minutes to go take a shower? Like all I wanted was to just be in the hot water.
And they were like, sorry, they're not gonna let you. And I don't even know how it was like this, but where they ended up putting the Hep-Lock was my right arm. But the IV tower was on the left side of the bed. And then where the monitor was hooked up for the baby monitoring was on my right side. So whenever I wanted to turn in the bed, I had to like twist under the cords.
Lisa: To be a contortionist in labor.
Leia: Yeah.
Lisa: Fun.
Leia: And I dunno why we couldn't move it to the other side. I think there just wasn't room. So I mean I still was trying to move, and this is why I was laughing earlier, like we took this How to Move Through Labor class and I mean if you ask Tammer too, he just kind of chuckles now. Like we were not in the mindset to do any of the things we planned.
So thankfully, the doula would just be like, why don't you try this and help me figure out a position to get into. So I did a million squats just cuz I had to pee all the time. And at one point I finally was like, why am I still on this IV? Like I want to be off. And the provider was, I guess worried, I can't remember now about like his heart rate or something.
And it was so great, the doula just very calmly was like, okay, but we tried this and if nothing has changed, why are we continuing to do more of it? And it was so great because she was there for the support without running the show by any means, but I was not in a logical place.
I don't know that that would've occurred to me anyway, but I just needed somebody to say that so that I could say that to the provider. Thankfully, Tammer also, that was so great us being on the same page, because he was also able to lead those conversations. But it is so exhausting to be doing all of that for the first time and also having to think through things like to be able to advocate of no, I don't want this.
So what else? I mean, I also wish that I had packed a hearty sandwich or something to eat, the night that I was in triage or the next morning. I mean, we certainly weren't planning on going to the hospital that early, but yeah, I remember at one point being very hungry. And then once things really got in the swing of things, I could not eat anything. They tried to give me some crackers and I was like, oh. And at one point in time I just did get in some broth, which, that actually was helpful. And I brought coconut water with me, which was great.
I tried to eat a little bit of Jello and it was the most disgusting thing I've ever put in my mouth. It was, I have never, ever experienced having that much difficulty eating something. It was very confusing.
Lisa: Yeah, that's a great way to describe it. True, usually at some point when things get really intense, we just can't even, the smell of food often is like disgusting.
Labor Support and Management
Leia: Yeah, but I was still very aware of having no energy.
But yeah, I mean, the doula also brought one of those like old fashioned fold out hand fans, and that was the best thing. They had wet washcloths on me at one point, but I would go from too hot to freezing.
And at a certain point in time, the fan was amazing, and I was mostly on the bed or jumping off the bed to squat and like in various positions on the bed, but I needed to be fanned. So my husband, bless him, fanned me for like seven hours straight. There were times when he like nodded off, sitting or standing, fanning. And then the fan would stop before his head dropped enough to wake him up. And I would be like, why did the fan stop?
Lisa: You may not fall asleep. Keep fanning me.
Leia: You may not. Exactly. Exactly. That was amazing, just the fact that she knew to pack that, like that was one of the most comforting things. And she was also really great about doing some massage and just some comforting touch. And, early on, one of the things that was most comfortable was kind of using Tammer's legs, to rest my arms and armpits on to, like, hang out in a squat.
But yeah, before too long, like I was just exhausted. I remember feeling at noon, okay, this is really intense. Like this is gonna be close. I was convinced that I was gonna give birth within the next two hours. And that two hours came and went and I was devastated.
And like my sense of the timeline is really hazy.
Like I was asking Tammer about some things and it's funny cuz there's some things of course, it's just, your brain cannot possibly hold on to and it's fine. But,
Lisa: We call that labor land.
Leia: Yes.
Lisa: It's just altered perception of time and space.
Disappointment with Progress
Leia: Time. Yeah. And I was just like, okay, it's gotta be soon cuz I'm exhausted. And it just was feeling so intense. I had two periods of severe nausea and so I was like, okay, this is it, transition, we're getting close. And then, like 3:00 PM, we finally consented. I mean, and I had refused at least two other times to be examined again. Cause I really didn't want to. I was like, it's not gonna help. And I finally agreed, I think probably because I thought she was gonna say I was like eight or nine and I thought that would kind of give me a little more energy to push through.
So she told us six and Tammer and I both like, I think we visibly, physically just sank.
I think Tammer made a "Ugh."
Like we were both so devastated and both the doula and the midwife were like, no, no, no. That's good. And I, I remember in class you were like, it doesn't go linearly.
Just because it takes so many hours to get from four to six doesn't mean it'll take that many to get from four to eight. But we still were just so bummed.
Lisa: You wanted a different number. Yeah.
Leia: Exactly.
Lisa: I totally get that. Regardless of like, Hey, some people will go from six to ten in 15 minutes, other people will take several hours. That doesn't mean anything to you when you're exhausted, and all you wanted to hear was we were like 8, 9, 10, right? Yeah.
Leia: Yeah. That's exactly it. So, I mean, this was 3:00 PM and at one point in time I was convinced I would already be done by now, and I just kinda was like, okay, I don't know how much longer I can do this. And it kept going. And I think it was finally at 7:00 PM cuz also every time the provider came in, they were also trying to convince me to do an epidural on Pitocin.
And I really do appreciate that they didn't give me a time limit. It wasn't the same horror story I've heard of other places where if you're not done by this time, you really don't have a choice. And the other thing that I think was really helpful was knowing that Tammer was a little bit worried about me getting the epidural, cuz there was a certain point when I just kind of was like, I wanna give up here.
Starting Pitocin
So that helped, knowing that there were other people in the room who really supported my vision. But finally I think around 7:00 PM we started having the conversation of maybe I need some Pitocin. Cuz I just, I felt like I had nothing left to give. And I can't remember when they actually started it.
I think it was closer to eight or nine when they started it. This is where having a doula is just so clutch. She was like, it is gonna change things, it will get more intense. and I was worried about it getting more intense.
She's like, if you decide you don't like it, you don't have to keep getting it. I was like, okay. So they give it to me and Tammer was laughing at me cause, apparently it was like within just a few minutes, that I was like, it's too much. Stop it. Turn it off. And Sarah-Grace was just like, it's okay, you're fine.
And you're like, Tammer, you're gaslighting me. Seriously.
Lisa: Don't tell me what I'm feeling or not.
Pushing and Baby Arrives
Leia: Yeah. So I finally had the Pitocin and I mean, it still took a while. He was born at 12:44 AM. By no means was this an exceptionally long birth, especially for a first time mother. But it was just, it was very surprising to experience that. Just to kind of have no sense, like to feel like it's close around noon and then no, it's a full half day away.
And then the last bit of excitement was, his head came out and then it just stopped and they were like, keep pushing. And I was like, I think I am, I can't push anymore.
Well, what's interesting is that the story about my birth is that I crowned and then I just hung out. And I was born with a full head of hair, so the doctor twirled my hair, so I came out with a finger curl. He came out a little bit more. And the provider was really worried that he was stuck or something. And this was again where Sarah-Grace kind of read the room and she didn't want their worry and panic to get to me, so like she made sure that I was focused on her, and she was just like, really encouraging me to to push, but like making sure that I didn't take temperature of the room.
So we finally get him out. and I think part of what happened is we're pretty sure he came out, OP, sunny side up, and his hand was like holding onto his neck.
Lisa: Oh, a little bit of compound.
Leia: And the cord,
Lisa: Uh-huh.
Leia: Yeah. And the cord was also wrapped around his neck, which I feel like that was one of the first things I read on Evidence-based Birth. And know we talked about in birth class of not an emergency.
Lisa: Very common, very normal.
No Immediate Skin to Skin
Leia: Very normal. Not a problem. So he's born and I'm ready for my immediate skin to skin and my golden hour.
And the provider tells me we need to examine him and they take him away and take him over to a table. And I was gutted, and I was like, is something wrong? What's going on? And they're like, no, it's okay.
And I'm like, then why isn't he on me? What's going on? I'm honestly still a little bit confused about what they were concerned about.
And I don't know if it's that they were worried because he paused and she said something about the cord, but I'm like, but we know that's not an emergency. But anyway, they cleaned him up and cut the cord and I mean, they did bring him over pretty quickly. But, you know, they were already wiping him off.
And I was like, no, don't mess with his microbiome. Yeah, and I did the tour of the placenta and then, they kind of helped me sort of latch him. He didn't completely latch. And then, the doula helped me with some hand expression. And yeah. Then we finally got to rest.
Pushing Stage Reflections
Lisa: I'm wondering, I just, backing up to the pushing stage, how did you know did you get the urge to bear down, or what did that look like or feel like?
Leia: Yeah, no, I definitely had the urge to bear down. And I actually really wanted to squat. but every time I tried, because I had squatted so many times to go to the bathroom, my calves were just like rocks and they just lit up with pain every time I tried to squat.
So I ended up pushing on all fours. and I don't remember now when I had the urge to bear down, but there was a clear oh no, this feels different. And I do remember, like the noises I was making changed and I remember Sarah-Grace being like, okay, now you're close, you're about to deliver. Cuz before then I wanted to scream very high pitched, and she kept reminding me to bring the register down.
And I remember being so shocked at how hard it was. I was like, I do not want to breathe. I don't believe I can. I don't wanna make noises like a cow. I wanna scream, high pitched. But yeah, I felt the urge to bear down and then there was just like far more guttural noises, shouting. And I started on all fours.
So when the head came out and then everything stopped, they ended up helping me change positions. So then I was laying on my side, I think with one leg up, propped up on something, which, there was no amount of reading about different birth positions before, that would've made Tammer prepared to help me get into that.
Like, we really needed somebody that was skilled to do that. And I'm so grateful too, cuz I, with everything else that the provider was pushing, I'm not sure, if it had just been me and Tammer, and that had happened, I'm not sure what the next step would've been, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more intervention.
Lisa: Do you remember feeling the ring of fire when the baby was crowning?
Leia: I don't remember.
Lisa: Yeah. Sometimes we're so in the zone that we just don't even notice.
Leia: Yeah, I don't remember. I mean, I know it was intense.
I just remember them being like, keep pushing and just feeling like I had nothing else. I think at that point in time I was not really processing the sensations anymore. But, I had one really small tear, on the floor of my vagina and I didn't have any perineal tears.
So I felt like that was pretty lucky.
I will say, okay, two things. I was not at all prepared for how much my body would be shaking. Which, it makes sense. I mean, I essentially did like an athletic event for 12 hours straight or longer. And then after, I was like chattering and I was so nervous cuz she's wanting me to hold still to stitch me up and I'm like, I can't, I cannot control this chattering. and she just sprayed lidocaine on me, which was not sufficient for stitching, but thankfully that part was over quickly.
Lisa: Yeah. And I'll point out that a lot of people describe it as sort of a combination, right after birth, of shivering and trembling. Both because you've lost a lot of body heat, as well as the muscular exertion that you just went through. It can feel sort of like a combination.
Does that resonate at all? Or how would you describe it?
Leia: Yeah, no, I would say that's exactly how it felt.
Yeah, And I remember Tammer too, feeling so bad about my chattering and shaking and I think the biggest thing for him was feeling so powerless, like other than the fan, there wasn't much he could do.
Post-Birth Emotions and Reflection
And I remember talking to friends before, and certainly being nervous about that pain. And my friend says, it's like there's this special kind of amnesia after, and it's all wiped away. And I mean, I remember the story, but I definitely do not have the same emotional feeling about that experience, anymore.
I feel like within a couple weeks of giving birth, like the intensity and kind of the, I don't wanna say, shock feels like a little bit too much of a word. But just the surprise of how it actually felt versus how you imagine it when you're preparing for it. It was really intense, and I think within a couple weeks my, I guess like emotional response to that experience had calmed down a lot. And I started to feel more positive about it and more comfortable with it.
I've definitely said multiple times, the prenatal period with things being uncomfortable of like, why do people ever do this more than once? And then within a couple weeks I was like, oh, okay. I get it, I get it.
Lisa: Yeah, that makes sense. With any monumental life experience, having a little distance and time to process often softens or, I don't know if softens the right word, but, just helps us process more of the nuances.
Leia: Yeah. I think softens fits.
Lisa: So any reflections on the initial just moments or hours or days?
Leia: I mean, it was just so, it was so wonderful to have him on me and, yeah, guess in some ways, while I wasn't prepared for the intensity of labor, I also don't feel like I could have comprehended how wonderful it would feel just to have this baby skin to skin, on me after, and we stayed in the hospital, I think one extra night, because he had some jaundice. and that part was a little bit, it wasn't too scary, just because it's a common enough thing that we felt confident he'd be okay.
And as much as I was eager to go home when we did, not having anything to do, but lay around and just cuddle my baby was wonderful. We certainly needed help from the lactation consultants and people to get the breastfeeding really going, but even that, even though it didn't feel perfect and natural right away, it felt like a comfortable learning process to be going through. Well worth it after.
Lactation Support and Body Work
Lisa: Well, so you had shared before we started recording a little bit about the lactation support that you received. Would you like to elaborate on that support, as well as on your postpartum visit from your doulas, or one of the doulas at least?
Leia: Yeah. So we took your recommendation. You had mentioned a lactation consultant in class and also, it was great, I don't know how it came up, but I don't know if it was you or one of the other participants in class mentioned that this insurance includes six visits and we were like, I–
Lisa: Aetna, right? Yeah. I always bring that up because it's such a great benefit.
Leia: Yeah. And I imagine most people feel the same way. Like most of the time my experience with insurance is, you think it's covered, but we'll find a way to bill you anyway.
So, I don't think we would have even looked into it unless we needed it, but knowing that they covered it, we went ahead and looked, and we worked with City Lactation and found out that you can do visits before you give birth, and it's still covered. And what was great about that, it really, put my mind at ease that I knew as much as I could know.
I think that was really what was beneficial. It reassured me that I had a sense of what it would look like, and then the other thing that was really beneficial was that I was a current client, so it meant that after I gave birth, I could reschedule more easily.
So we didn't have our first visit quite as early as we would've expected because we ended up having to take our baby back for jaundice treatments, which, that was its own absurdity, but he's okay and it's great.
So we paid a little bit extra to have her come to the apartment and oh my God, it was so great. She weighed him before and after, so we knew how much he was getting. And I think finding the doula, finding the birth class, like, you end up finding the people that you really vibe with. And I think almost everybody in my team was like the perfect vibe for us. And the lactation consultant was just a seamless part of that team. And I actually ended up seeing her again this week just to check in. I think it should just be something that is a given that everybody has access to and that it's covered.
It was so valuable. For me, we didn't get it intuitively, like we did need some support. I was pretty lucky in that I didn't have cracked nipples, he did latch, he doesn't have any obstructive tongue ties or anything like that, but it still was uncomfortable and it was this weird thing where one side is way more uncomfortable, and it's still like he just has, kind of, some imbalances.
Lisa: So one side of his neck is tighter, so he wants to turn his head more and it's stuff that can be worked on, but we would've never found the resources on our own. I'm curious, I know a lot of times lactation consultants will recommend body work because it's hard to be born, and often they're a little twisted up and maybe have tightness in the neck or some other part of their body. Did Annie or Kara recommend body work?
Yeah. So we mostly worked with Kara, who is lovely and she recommended that we try some cranial sacral work and the person she initially recommended at Earth and Sky, the former owner, her name is Katinka, she had actually sold the practice and she works on her own in Manhattan.
Leia: Yeah. So we've seen her a few times and, oh my gosh, like the difference from just one session was visible. I mean, I guess, babies are a little more pliable. I love body work, but my structure isn't suddenly changed after a massage, but he visibly showed improvements. Like his shoulders were way up in his ears and like every visit they relaxed a little bit. He was latching better. She also gave us some things to do with him at home. And, she's like, most likely he'll grow out of this on his own anyway, but, it was really nice to have the support.
In fact, I put some pictures together on my Instagram of his first, second and third month birthday pictures, and you can see his shoulders drop down progressively each month.
Lisa: Oh, I'll have to check that out.
Leia: Yeah. So I highly recommend the cranial sacral as well. Like it was an investment, but it made a really big difference for his feeding and his body.
Lisa: Yeah. There are so many things I wish could be standard of care for all babies and increased accessibility and all of those things that we just need better support for families
Postpartum Doula Help
Leia: Yeah, definitely.
And also we had another visit with our doula after, which was so great. That was actually one of the reasons we wanted to work with Golden Bow Birth, was like how the package was set up, included that postnatal visit. There are just so many things it would not have occurred to us to figure out.
And I think one of the best things she suggested was that we go in shifts since Omari sleeps in a bassinet, didn't wanna do co-sleeping, so, with breastfeeding, I had to be up most of the time and we did end up giving him pretty much one bottle a day from the very start. But she helped us figure out like, okay, you work in shifts, so Tammer would give him a bottle and that would be one opportunity for me to nap. And then I would kind of take the night shift so I would feed him and, I could nap while he was napping. In theory, it got a little bit easier as time went on. And then during the day, when I wasn't feeding the baby, like Tammer was officially on. And it also meant that, during the day, because he'd gotten a full night's sleep, he could do more of the cooking and the cleaning and the laundry and the kind of household stuff. So that worked really well for us. And again, like it's just not something we would've thought of.
I can't remember other examples, but I know there were just so many. I think honestly even just feeling comfortable, like holding the baby and how to burp him, Cause, you know, we like use the dolls in class, but it feels very different
Lisa: It is different.
Leia: It's like a tiny human you're afraid of breaking.
Lisa: Yeah, that's true.
Leia: Yeah. And like suggestions for the first bath of like, yeah, he may get cold, so just cover him with little muslin, like little things like that. And. I don't think we could have read enough to have actually, like, felt comfortable with so many of these things.
Yeah. It's so tactile having in the moment support is a game changer.
Yeah.
Lisa: Do you remember when your doulas came to visit? Often it's recommended like around day three to five, but do you remember when it was for you?
Leia: Yeah, I think it probably was around then. I'm not sure. I know we ended up coming home on a Monday and then Wednesday we had to take him back to the emergency room because his bilirubin levels were concerning.
Lisa: He had jaundice. So I can't remember if she was able to come in that brief, initial window or if she came after the hospital visit. I think it might have been after the first week. But we were also texting with her so much. And was this Sarah Grace?
Leia: It was Sarah Grace. Yeah.
Lisa: I was thinking that whoever attends birth continues that.
Leia: Comes after. Yeah.
Effects on Career
Lisa: Did you wanna talk at all about how your journey through this process informs the work that you do as a physical trainer?
Leia: Oh yeah, sure. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's, a little bit simple in just that, before, I've been certified for pre and postnatal, but it was so much of through the lens of strength training applied to the pregnant person, and of course it's always different to go through an experience than to just learn about it. But going through it myself and doing the training myself, it is a little bit different, approaching it from the perspective of here's what's going to happen when I go through birth, and there's a lot of overlap anyway, given the type of training that I do. But I just learned so much more about the pelvic floor and about the kind of movement that was going to be relevant for me during birth.
I mean, I know not everybody plans to have the same birth that I did. But it certainly does change my perspective on what's important to include and like how I set up training for myself and for other moms to be moving forward. I did really have to take a step back from movement initially. Like I had to dial things back so much, so the fact that it was something that I already had a practice with and was comfortable with made it much more doable, I think than if I had just been like, oh no, I'm pregnant now, I have to start doing this other thing.
Lisa: And so now, on the other side of your leave, you said you're back to doing some personal training work.
Wanna share at all–
Leia: Yeah.
Lisa: About what that looks like in case people are interested in seeking you out?
Leia: Yeah, so I do virtual sessions, so people either work with me in their homes or some people will take me to a gym if that's allowed. And it's, yeah, just a lot of functional movements. So could be body weight stuff or bands and free weights. And just, one-on-one sessions, an hour long. I don't know if there's anything I'm missing there.
Lisa: That's great. It's helpful to know if you do in person or virtual, or.
Leia: Oh, yeah.
Lisa: Yeah. So they need to be local, even if it's virtual in terms of what is allowed for personal trainers. I don't know how much that's regulated or if it is at all.
Leia: Oh yeah. No, I mean, the only thing that's tricky if you're not local is just whether the time zones line up.
Lisa: Sure.
Leia: But I mean, if anybody is interested but they're not sure if it's a good fit, I always offer people a session for free just to see whether or not we're a good fit. And if it's something that you're interested in.
Lisa: Great. All right, well, I'll be sure to get your information and if you would like to share it verbally here or I can just put it in the show notes.
Leia: Yeah, I mean, my website's just my name, LeiaDeSousa.com, which is probably much easier to look at from the notes.
Lisa: Yeah, sure. Great. So I will be sure to include that.
Concluding Thoughts
Wonderful. Well, is there anything else that you haven't gotten to share that you were hoping to share?
Leia: I don't think so. I mean, yeah, just have a doula if you can, go take Lisa's birth class, and read those books.
Lisa: And then surrender the unknown and the unpredictable is part of what I think I was hearing from Transformed Birth and how meaningful that was. And yeah, a lot of times people hear or read the mythic story of Inanna and it feels kind of cheesy prenatally until you're in it or on the other side of it, right?
Leia: Yeah. And it's funny, I remember reading that one night and kind of thinking about it. Tammer and I actually did the exercise where we wrote down things that we would want with us in birth and like thinking through what it would feel like if we lost them. And I just remember thinking like, the two things that I will probably be devastated if I lose are, Tammer's support if for some reason he couldn't be there, and the doula.
Lisa: So, thankfully I had both of those supports at my birth and That's beautiful. I love that you focused on relationship and support.
Yeah, because in the end, that's what often matters most. But a lot of times, prenatally, people don't really get that. They're like, I want the intervention free birth. That's all I want. And it doesn't always go that way, for various reasons.
And, so I think that's really beautiful and I would encourage people who are listening, who are going through this journey themselves to, sit with that, yeah. Oh.
Leia: Yeah. Oh, and the other thing I did do after was join the virtual postpartum support group hosted by several of the East River Collective doulas, and that has also, again, the relationship piece, like talking through things with other moms. The first meeting we all shared our birth stories and each person there was able to have something that they wanted and then something didn't go as planned, And it's so easy to look at part of one person's birth story and be a bit envious of that and really covet that part of the experience. So it does really feel like there are going to be parts of it that are really beautiful and comfortable and there are going to be parts where you have to let go of your preconceived ideas of what you want.
Lisa: Well said. Leia, thank you so much for taking the time to visit today.
Leia: Yeah, thank you so much. It's actually nice to talk through everything and process it again, and hopefully it's helpful for someone.